Help! Im brewing my first Lager
Last night I piched My first 5G lager using WLP800 (white Labs). I thought I knew what I was doing then I got some very different instructions from 2 different people. It has ben sitting @ room temp for 12 hours now.
One person said room temp one day, 55d for 4 or 5 days ( 2/3 gravity), rome temp one day then, rack, 50d 3 to 4 weeks.
the other told me 55d for 2 weeks,rack 40d for 4 weeks.
What is the best way. thax
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Lipman on -
Well, here is my 2 cents (I have brewed a few very tasty lagers in my past). Follow the guidance that professionals and the yeast mfgrs give you; listen to your friends but throw away any advice that goes in the face of conventional wisdom (like pitching a lager at ale temps for example). Sure, try stuff like that but after you have a baseline following what trusted sources recommend, make sense?
Here is an example: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=26
That is a typical lager yeast, 48-56F is the recommended fermentation temperature. You can pitch a little low or a little high (personally I prefer a couple of degrees low, then let the temps walk up slowly but there is some debate here). Don't pitch room temp and crash it though, you are risking the yeast dropping out or just freaking out. It is a lager yeast and is made to be happy cold. Sure you might get a faster, more frothy start at room temps but that is not what lager yeasts are supposed to do and you are certainly changing the ester profile. Most esters you taste are formed in the first part of a fermentation so is that the stage you want to be jacking around with temps way outside the published recommendations?
So, some concise advice if you prefer? Pitch at or slightly below the published 'happy' temp for the yeast. Be sure you have plenty of oxygen (shake the crap out of it, better yet, learn how to inject O2 from a bottle properly). Make sure you added proper Calcium and yeast nutrients so the yeast has the fuel it needs. Pitch heavy, like twice the number of cells an ale would call for is not unusual (1.5 to 2 times the cell count an ale would need for the same gravity of wort).
Once you have pitched, keep it at that temp as close as you can for 3-5 weeks (the gravity will hit terminal in that period of time). Taste! If you sense any diacetyl, do a D-rest (let the temps rise for a day or two, slowly). Then to a lagering step (take it down low for a couple of weeks).
This will nearly always give you a properly tasting lager albeit in a fairly long time (it IS a lager by the way, a 3-week lager ferment is not a goal in my mind). You will eventually learn if you need the D rest, how long your primary needs to run, and how long your lagering stage should go (when you get the clarity you desire and the 'green' beer taste goes away).
Reading your post again...were I to listen to one of your friends I would take the second set of advice, 55d for 2 and 40d for 4 but you are starting to learn calculus by asking how to add 1+2; there is way more to the art than arithmetic!
Please excuse me if I come off brash; I have a passion for these little buggers we call yeast and starting a lager off at room temp pisses me off, lol!
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Permalink Reply by Chad Morris on
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Ben,
Thank you for the help. It is to late to fallow some of your advice ( it sat at room temp for 20 hours) but I will fallow it from hear out. The guy that told me to keep it at room temp for the first 24 hours was the guy that sold it to me. I have found that they sometimes tell you the easiest way not the best way. One fallow up question, When you say “let the temps rise for a day or two, slowly” how high?
Again thank you for the help. Hopefully you saved my first logger, Cheers
Ben Lipman said:Well, here is my 2 cents (I have brewed a few very tasty lagers in my past). Follow the guidance that professionals and the yeast mfgrs give you; listen to your friends but throw away any advice that goes in the face of conventional wisdom (like pitching a lager at ale temps for example). Sure, try stuff like that but after you have a baseline following what trusted sources recommend, make sense?
Here is an example: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=26
That is a typical lager yeast, 48-56F is the recommended fermentation temperature. You can pitch a little low or a little high (personally I prefer a couple of degrees low, then let the temps walk up slowly but there is some debate here). Don't pitch room temp and crash it though, you are risking the yeast dropping out or just freaking out. It is a lager yeast and is made to be happy cold. Sure you might get a faster, more frothy start at room temps but that is not what lager yeasts are supposed to do and you are certainly changing the ester profile. Most esters you taste are formed in the first part of a fermentation so is that the stage you want to be jacking around with temps way outside the published recommendations?
So, some concise advice if you prefer? Pitch at or slightly below the published 'happy' temp for the yeast. Be sure you have plenty of oxygen (shake the crap out of it, better yet, learn how to inject O2 from a bottle properly). Make sure you added proper Calcium and yeast nutrients so the yeast has the fuel it needs. Pitch heavy, like twice the number of cells an ale would call for is not unusual (1.5 to 2 times the cell count an ale would need for the same gravity of wort).
Once you have pitched, keep it at that temp as close as you can for 3-5 weeks (the gravity will hit terminal in that period of time). Taste! If you sense any diacetyl, do a D-rest (let the temps rise for a day or two, slowly). Then to a lagering step (take it down low for a couple of weeks).
This will nearly always give you a properly tasting lager albeit in a fairly long time (it IS a lager by the way, a 3-week lager ferment is not a goal in my mind). You will eventually learn if you need the D rest, how long your primary needs to run, and how long your lagering stage should go (when you get the clarity you desire and the 'green' beer taste goes away).
Reading your post again...were I to listen to one of your friends I would take the second set of advice, 55d for 2 and 40d for 4 but you are starting to learn calculus by asking how to add 1+2; there is way more to the art than arithmetic!
Please excuse me if I come off brash; I have a passion for these little buggers we call yeast and starting a lager off at room temp pisses me off, lol!
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